Minutes of the AOMC Delegates Meeting held via zoom.
Monday October 12th, 2020
Meeting opened by facilitator Keith Mortimer at 7.30pm.
There were 35 delegates in attendance representing 32 clubs.
Presidents Report: Iain Ross welcomed everyone attending, and especially John Lewis from VicRoads. He noted that this is the third delegates zoom meeting to be held, with clubs split into 3 cohorts. Country Clubs, Metro clubs A to L, and Metro Clubs M – Z. These may need to continue for some time, as it is unsure when in person delegates meetings can be held in person.
Nothing much has been happening due to the current lockdown, the movement is at a standstill at present and even events in the early part of next year are looking in doubt. The AOMC has still been functioning to represent clubs and keep them informed. All information has been sent out to clubs when received, and we are attempting to keep in touch with clubs as best we can via emails and news bulletins.
RACV: Daryl Meek is leaving the organisation and the Motoring Interests department is being disbanded, leaving future support of the movement in doubt.
John Johnson (Volvo CC) remarked that this could put Australia Day in jeopardy. Iain responded that it looks in doubt, not sure what is happening.
Treasurer In the treasurers absence, Howard Billing reported that as at 31/8/2020, the AOMC has $178,230.46 in its cash accounts. Rent on the office has been reduced by the landlord. Income has been reduced due to lack of ability to run car shows (our major fundraiser) and being unable to conduct Engine Number searches. Invoices for membership renewals are going out at present, with a discount on membership this year.
Engine Number Records Service: This facility has been closed during the lockdown. 20 current applications are being held over until the records can be accessed again.
VicRoads/CPS & Guest Speaker: Iain Ross introduced John Lewis from VicRoads.
John began by pointing out that Road Safety Regulations are reviewed every 10 years. There will be some changes in October and more next year. There is not much foreseen to changes in the club Permit Scheme regulations, unless money becomes available to transfer the CPS database to the main database, on ongoing concern. Changes are as follows:
An email has been sent out to all clubs detailing these changes.
Questions from the floor:
Warwick Truepenny (Norton Owners Club) noted that the model rules state that if membership is not paid within a certain time they become a non member. He also asked about the status of life members. John Lewis (JL) responded that it is up to the clubs to decide on membership status.
Andrew McDougall (Veteran CC) asked if there was any thought to doing away with the paper windscreen labels, as in open veteran vehicles they are easily spoiled when they get wet. JL responded that there has been some debate about the retention of labels, but they will continue to use them as the feeling is that CPS holders prefer to retain them. He will take on board the issue with paper labels being easily damaged.
Andrew referred to taking part in single and twin veteran runs from Perth to Sydney and from Adelaide to Darwin. On these runs he used a flashing illuminated light on the back of his vehicle to warn fast approaching traffic from the rear that there was a slow moving hazard ahead. Whilst on these runs, mixing with big trucks and road trains, he received lots of compliments from passing truck drivers who appreciated the warning. He is looking to recommend it be allowed for slow moving vehicles in Victoria. JL responded that he has spoken to compliance engineers on this issue, and they do not support anything apart from standard lights on vehicles, as they consider it would cause confusion.
Iain Ross suggested that the best thing is to show the engineers what is happening on the road with slow moving vehicles. JL added that he is happy to continue the discussion.
Terry Roche (Triumph CC) asked why when initial CPS registration is applied for, a scrutineer's signature as well as RWC are required when the RWC should be sufficient. JL responded that VicRoads want clubs to take responsibility for safety and eligibility for the scheme.
Terry asked what would happen if a vehicle that a scrutineer has signed off for is involved in a fatal accident. JL responded that the evidence of safety is the RWC.
Carl Jones (Mercedes Benz Club Vic. Typ901 Register Inc.) thanked John and VicRoads for the scheme. With the eventual amalgamation of the database, could black and white plates be available for CPS vehicles. JL responded that CPS vehicles need to be readily identifiable on the road, particularly to monitor commercial use and log book compliance and at this stage there is no plan to introduce the option of standard issue plates.
Gareth Walker (RS Owners Club) reported that in his club there has been a lot of problems when CPS holders change address, and subsequently renewals do not arrive at new address. JL responded that the issue with over the counter renewals and changes is that because the CPS database is separate and needs updating independently this is sometimes overlooked. VicRoads have now introduced an electronic renewal system through MyVicRoads which can be used to change details such as addresses. You can also check your details including which vehicles are registered under your name.
Rod Amos (Vintage Sports Car Club) queried the use of electronic renewals and the need for signatures on the renewals. JL responded that you still need to upload club endorsement of your renewal. This can be done by scanning the signed documents and this can then be uploaded onto the electronic system. Several delegates reported that they have used the system and have found that it worked well.
John Johnson (Volvo CC) asked if with deceased estate transfer of permits to spouse, could this be extended to include sons and daughters. JL responded that no, it cannot be extended to other family members. It has merely been brought into line with the situation with full registration and is in place because spouses are considered to be joint owners of a vehicle. If transferred to another family member the usual procedures and costs associated with vehicle transfers applies.
- What is the criteria with stickers with Left hand Drive vehicles? I have a 35yo LHD vehicle. JL responded that ADRs do not allow for vehicles under 30yo to be LHD. VicRoads have introduced a process whereby 25 to 30yo LHD vehicles can be registered on the CPS following inspection, but cannot be put on full registration.
- There are still a few ‘cowboy’ car clubs that are operating outside the spirit of the scheme. What is VicRoads criteria to monitor them? JL responded that they look at clubs activities and try to identify clubs doing the wrong thing. He added that VicRoads have no way of monitoring club activities once they are registered as CPS providers.
- Can I drive my CPS vehicle to my place of work? JL responded that you can as long as your log book is filled out, However, if that vehicle is used to do deliveries on the way to work, that is unacceptable.
Peter Ramage (Williamstown Motorcycle Club) reported that he likes to pay his bills as soon as they arrive. However, with his CPS renewals, when he tries to pay as soon as paperwork arrives, he is told he cannot as it is seen to be currently fully paid up. JL responded that under the VicRoads system, payments can only be made within 4 weeks of the renewal date.
David Smallacombe (Morris Register) asked if you are on a 4 day club rally, can you prefill your logbook to cover each day or do you need to fill out each day. JL responded that you must fill out each day separately on each day of use.
Gary Saber (Porsche CC) wanted to confirm scrutineering requirements. Does the club scrutineer have to inspect the vehicle and take the required photos. JL responded that it is OK for the member to supply photos of the vehicle. This provision was made to assist regional clubs due to distance issues.
Andrew McDougal (Veteran CC) noted that the Alvis CC that he is also a member of chose not to have a scrutineer and rely solely on RWC as proof of eligibility and safety. The scrutineer part of the form is not filled out, and they have gone through OK. JL responded that he was surprised that those forms have gone through, as they need to be fully filled out. Needs to be reinforcement on this matter. Rod Amos clarified that the scrutineer signature is to confirm that vehicle is safe for use because a RWC has been sighted.
Iain Ross thanked John Lewis for his attendance and in assisting clubs. Iain also asked that clubs when corresponding with VicRoads to please be civil.
Delegates Reports:
Andrew McDougal (Veteran CC) referred to the FIVA survey on classic and historic vehicles. AOMC has sent out a notice and link to this survey, but has had some reactions from clubs thinking that it was a scam and not worth the effort. Andrew stressed that all information gathered from Australia will be supplied back to Australia as well as being consolidated into global figures. Statistical information of this nature is very important in gauging the extent of the movement, and would be most helpful data when lobbying government. As of October 6th, 1600 responses have been submitted in Australia which is the 6th best response worldwide.
Andrew also added that Queensland are running club events, and there is one 4 day event where participants have been split into 4 groups who do different runs each day. Problems are with arranging meals and accommodation. He also added that South Australia have cancelled the 2021 All British day that was due to take place in March.
John Johnson (Volvo CC) noted that the safety officer sign off is a critical part of the form, but that the renewal form only asks if the owner is a club member.
Chairman Iain Ross thanked everyone for their attendance, and assured delegated that the AOMC will continue to keep in touch via constant email updates and newsletters and bulletins.
The AOMC will be holding the Annual General meeting via zoom on November 23rd via zoom. Details, reports, nomination and proxy forms will be circulated prior to the meeting.
Meeting declared closed at 9.05pm
Monday October 12th, 2020
Meeting opened by facilitator Keith Mortimer at 7.30pm.
There were 35 delegates in attendance representing 32 clubs.
Presidents Report: Iain Ross welcomed everyone attending, and especially John Lewis from VicRoads. He noted that this is the third delegates zoom meeting to be held, with clubs split into 3 cohorts. Country Clubs, Metro clubs A to L, and Metro Clubs M – Z. These may need to continue for some time, as it is unsure when in person delegates meetings can be held in person.
Nothing much has been happening due to the current lockdown, the movement is at a standstill at present and even events in the early part of next year are looking in doubt. The AOMC has still been functioning to represent clubs and keep them informed. All information has been sent out to clubs when received, and we are attempting to keep in touch with clubs as best we can via emails and news bulletins.
RACV: Daryl Meek is leaving the organisation and the Motoring Interests department is being disbanded, leaving future support of the movement in doubt.
John Johnson (Volvo CC) remarked that this could put Australia Day in jeopardy. Iain responded that it looks in doubt, not sure what is happening.
Treasurer In the treasurers absence, Howard Billing reported that as at 31/8/2020, the AOMC has $178,230.46 in its cash accounts. Rent on the office has been reduced by the landlord. Income has been reduced due to lack of ability to run car shows (our major fundraiser) and being unable to conduct Engine Number searches. Invoices for membership renewals are going out at present, with a discount on membership this year.
Engine Number Records Service: This facility has been closed during the lockdown. 20 current applications are being held over until the records can be accessed again.
VicRoads/CPS & Guest Speaker: Iain Ross introduced John Lewis from VicRoads.
John began by pointing out that Road Safety Regulations are reviewed every 10 years. There will be some changes in October and more next year. There is not much foreseen to changes in the club Permit Scheme regulations, unless money becomes available to transfer the CPS database to the main database, on ongoing concern. Changes are as follows:
- Formalising the disallowing of commercial use of CPS vehicles. VicRoads will take strong action on this in the future. There have been complaints about CPS vehicles being used for reward in weddings, gardening services and transport duties.
- Due to issues with production, the current dark red plates used a paint that was not OHOS compliant, new manufacturing techniques have been introduced however they are much more expensive. Previously the plates were approximately $6 to manufacture, now they are over $35.. Therefore, a fee for first issue plates for permit vehicles will be introduced.
- Plates for Vintage will be at half cost, as only 1 plate is issued. Cost will be $38.10 ($19 Vintage).
- VicRoads will have the authority to issue permits with conditions. For example, vehicles without lights will not be allowed to operate at night, and vehicles with steel wheels will have restricted road use.
- The introduction of Slim Line Plates for CPS vehicles. They will be in the same number series as the club permit plates, and will be issued on a next out of the box basis. Still working on the process, and may be able to offer replacement plates (same number as full reg). They are still undergoing camera testing however. They failed first time around and police will not approve them until they pass the test.
- Reassignment of deceased permit holder’s permit to surviving spouse. This has been happening even though not in the regulations, but will now be recognised in the regulations.
- Renewing Club Permits online has been introduced. To do this you need to have a MyVicRoads account. Signatures are still required and log book issued, but payment can be made online. System can also allow for signatures to be provided online as well.
- Change of eligibility requirement from financial member to member. This was done because VicRoads were being used as a debt collector for clubs. It is still up to the club to determine if permit holder is a member or not. For example, a life member of a club is still a member, but pay no dues.
- There will be an obligation on CPS holders to notify within 14 days of any changes of details (address, etc.)
An email has been sent out to all clubs detailing these changes.
Questions from the floor:
Warwick Truepenny (Norton Owners Club) noted that the model rules state that if membership is not paid within a certain time they become a non member. He also asked about the status of life members. John Lewis (JL) responded that it is up to the clubs to decide on membership status.
Andrew McDougall (Veteran CC) asked if there was any thought to doing away with the paper windscreen labels, as in open veteran vehicles they are easily spoiled when they get wet. JL responded that there has been some debate about the retention of labels, but they will continue to use them as the feeling is that CPS holders prefer to retain them. He will take on board the issue with paper labels being easily damaged.
Andrew referred to taking part in single and twin veteran runs from Perth to Sydney and from Adelaide to Darwin. On these runs he used a flashing illuminated light on the back of his vehicle to warn fast approaching traffic from the rear that there was a slow moving hazard ahead. Whilst on these runs, mixing with big trucks and road trains, he received lots of compliments from passing truck drivers who appreciated the warning. He is looking to recommend it be allowed for slow moving vehicles in Victoria. JL responded that he has spoken to compliance engineers on this issue, and they do not support anything apart from standard lights on vehicles, as they consider it would cause confusion.
Iain Ross suggested that the best thing is to show the engineers what is happening on the road with slow moving vehicles. JL added that he is happy to continue the discussion.
Terry Roche (Triumph CC) asked why when initial CPS registration is applied for, a scrutineer's signature as well as RWC are required when the RWC should be sufficient. JL responded that VicRoads want clubs to take responsibility for safety and eligibility for the scheme.
Terry asked what would happen if a vehicle that a scrutineer has signed off for is involved in a fatal accident. JL responded that the evidence of safety is the RWC.
Carl Jones (Mercedes Benz Club Vic. Typ901 Register Inc.) thanked John and VicRoads for the scheme. With the eventual amalgamation of the database, could black and white plates be available for CPS vehicles. JL responded that CPS vehicles need to be readily identifiable on the road, particularly to monitor commercial use and log book compliance and at this stage there is no plan to introduce the option of standard issue plates.
Gareth Walker (RS Owners Club) reported that in his club there has been a lot of problems when CPS holders change address, and subsequently renewals do not arrive at new address. JL responded that the issue with over the counter renewals and changes is that because the CPS database is separate and needs updating independently this is sometimes overlooked. VicRoads have now introduced an electronic renewal system through MyVicRoads which can be used to change details such as addresses. You can also check your details including which vehicles are registered under your name.
Rod Amos (Vintage Sports Car Club) queried the use of electronic renewals and the need for signatures on the renewals. JL responded that you still need to upload club endorsement of your renewal. This can be done by scanning the signed documents and this can then be uploaded onto the electronic system. Several delegates reported that they have used the system and have found that it worked well.
John Johnson (Volvo CC) asked if with deceased estate transfer of permits to spouse, could this be extended to include sons and daughters. JL responded that no, it cannot be extended to other family members. It has merely been brought into line with the situation with full registration and is in place because spouses are considered to be joint owners of a vehicle. If transferred to another family member the usual procedures and costs associated with vehicle transfers applies.
- What is the criteria with stickers with Left hand Drive vehicles? I have a 35yo LHD vehicle. JL responded that ADRs do not allow for vehicles under 30yo to be LHD. VicRoads have introduced a process whereby 25 to 30yo LHD vehicles can be registered on the CPS following inspection, but cannot be put on full registration.
- There are still a few ‘cowboy’ car clubs that are operating outside the spirit of the scheme. What is VicRoads criteria to monitor them? JL responded that they look at clubs activities and try to identify clubs doing the wrong thing. He added that VicRoads have no way of monitoring club activities once they are registered as CPS providers.
- Can I drive my CPS vehicle to my place of work? JL responded that you can as long as your log book is filled out, However, if that vehicle is used to do deliveries on the way to work, that is unacceptable.
Peter Ramage (Williamstown Motorcycle Club) reported that he likes to pay his bills as soon as they arrive. However, with his CPS renewals, when he tries to pay as soon as paperwork arrives, he is told he cannot as it is seen to be currently fully paid up. JL responded that under the VicRoads system, payments can only be made within 4 weeks of the renewal date.
David Smallacombe (Morris Register) asked if you are on a 4 day club rally, can you prefill your logbook to cover each day or do you need to fill out each day. JL responded that you must fill out each day separately on each day of use.
Gary Saber (Porsche CC) wanted to confirm scrutineering requirements. Does the club scrutineer have to inspect the vehicle and take the required photos. JL responded that it is OK for the member to supply photos of the vehicle. This provision was made to assist regional clubs due to distance issues.
Andrew McDougal (Veteran CC) noted that the Alvis CC that he is also a member of chose not to have a scrutineer and rely solely on RWC as proof of eligibility and safety. The scrutineer part of the form is not filled out, and they have gone through OK. JL responded that he was surprised that those forms have gone through, as they need to be fully filled out. Needs to be reinforcement on this matter. Rod Amos clarified that the scrutineer signature is to confirm that vehicle is safe for use because a RWC has been sighted.
Iain Ross thanked John Lewis for his attendance and in assisting clubs. Iain also asked that clubs when corresponding with VicRoads to please be civil.
Delegates Reports:
Andrew McDougal (Veteran CC) referred to the FIVA survey on classic and historic vehicles. AOMC has sent out a notice and link to this survey, but has had some reactions from clubs thinking that it was a scam and not worth the effort. Andrew stressed that all information gathered from Australia will be supplied back to Australia as well as being consolidated into global figures. Statistical information of this nature is very important in gauging the extent of the movement, and would be most helpful data when lobbying government. As of October 6th, 1600 responses have been submitted in Australia which is the 6th best response worldwide.
Andrew also added that Queensland are running club events, and there is one 4 day event where participants have been split into 4 groups who do different runs each day. Problems are with arranging meals and accommodation. He also added that South Australia have cancelled the 2021 All British day that was due to take place in March.
John Johnson (Volvo CC) noted that the safety officer sign off is a critical part of the form, but that the renewal form only asks if the owner is a club member.
Chairman Iain Ross thanked everyone for their attendance, and assured delegated that the AOMC will continue to keep in touch via constant email updates and newsletters and bulletins.
The AOMC will be holding the Annual General meeting via zoom on November 23rd via zoom. Details, reports, nomination and proxy forms will be circulated prior to the meeting.
Meeting declared closed at 9.05pm