1973 T 2.4 engine rebuild

[AdamGill]

Hi all

After having a recent fuel leak the mechanic had a look over the engine and suggested it was time for a full rebuild.

I took the car to Porsche Melbourne and they agreed - the quote looks like I won’t be seeing much change from $40k.

Assuming most parts come from Porsche and that they offer a classic labour rate of $161 + GST should I consider an independent ?

All comments welcome

Cheers
Adam

[PCM911T]

Mike Jacobson at Spyder Automobiles Warragul has considerable expertise with these engines. Id be talking to him on o407901356 next week. He is taking advanced bookings
Paul M

[Terminator]

Love to see the quote think it sounds cheap at $161 an hour

[AdamGill]

Love to see the quote think it sounds cheap at $161 an hour

Just forwarded to you via email Clyde.

[AdamGill]

Mike Jacobson at Spyder Automobiles Warragul has considerable expertise with these engines. Id be talking to him on o407901356 next week. He is taking advanced bookings
Paul M

Thanks - will give him a call!

[reedminor]

You'd get a good engine from both I think....

30-40K sounds about the going rate - I'm not sure how worn out your current motor is.

It would be a case of who you want to have do it at the end of the day

JR

[e72phil]

Is the engine still on carbs ? or is it a T/E engine with MFI ? I had a couple of US 911T's with the MFI setup so this changes a lot if an MFI rebuild is required. Sets of pistons and cylinders are not cheap these days, especially for a 2.4 engine. Years ago when I did a rebuild of my 72 2.4 911E the P's & C's would have cost $13K for a set of Mahle. Going to 2.7, they only cost $3.5K. Big difference plus more torque and HP. So keeping it original might well cost plenty just in the parts. A $40K bill for complete engine rebuild these days seems par for the course, but I have not heard great things about early engine rebuilds from PCM. You could also try Phil Hearn in Eltham. He is just around the corner from his old AutoCoupe workshop that he sold to Darren. But you might have to wait as he always seems to be building 356 motors and gearboxes for a list of clients.

There are so many items in a 911 engine rebuild to consider and get done properly from heads rebuild (valve guides etc), crankcase refacing & tunnel boring, crankshaft polishing and/or machining, consequential bearing resizing (incl availability of bearings), balancing of conrods, balancing of crank, possible upgrade of oil pump whilst you are in there (I installed a 964 turbo high pressure oil pump that gave consistently great oil pressure even on hot days). Camshafts may need regrinding but all these things become apparent once the engine is completely stripped down.

Of course there are also the mandatory replacement of all critical seals that should go without saying and things like linishing of valve covers to eliminate oil leaks as much as possible. All new timing chains and tensioners need done and possibly an upgrade to hydraulic chain tensioners (if not already fitted). If PCM does the work, I would assume they do it "by the book" however some independents will suggest tried and tested upgrades that improves engine performance and engine life plus assure longevity of your engine, which after a $40K investment, you need to consider.

I believe the official Porsche factory recommendation for a complete engine rebuild is approx 42 hrs of labour, however in my experience it is more like 80 - 100 hrs and it all depends on what the components look like once stripped down and cleaned. In one of my 2.4 engines, the crankshaft needed to be replaced. Luckily I had a spare engine with a crank that was still std sizing so bearing shells were easy to find. You want to do this rebuild once, and do it properly so you end up with a strong and reliable engine that will probably perform better than new, such is the knowledge that has been gained about these motors by many mechanics over many years.

[e72phil]

Perhaps you can also ask various workshops for references from owners of recent engine rebuilds and also ask the workshop how many early 911 engines have they built recently. Experience on these engines is critical in getting it done properly the first time. You dont want to be the experimental engine in their workshop as they learn to strip and re-assemble your motor.

[reedminor]

Darren Bell at Auto Coupe is another one to try. Have heard many positive things about him.

You've already got 3 or 4 very good options.

Justin

[Kane k]

I have just completed a sportomatic to manual with Darren at Auto Coupe, he is a fantastic guy to deal with, and plenty of engine work taking place there. He was about to start a RS rebuild, whilst I was there, amongst other engines sitting around. Whist my engine was out he carried out Cam re timing lots of oil leaks etc, and general service type of stuff, the performance of the engine is now amazing, I would definitely consider speaking to him.

[AdamGill]

Thanks Phil for your very considered response.

Still running carbs and plan to keep it that way.

Cheers
Adam

Is the engine still on carbs ? or is it a T/E engine with MFI ? I had a couple of US 911T's with the MFI setup so this changes a lot if an MFI rebuild is required. Sets of pistons and cylinders are not cheap these days, especially for a 2.4 engine. Years ago when I did a rebuild of my 72 2.4 911E the P's & C's would have cost $13K for a set of Mahle. Going to 2.7, they only cost $3.5K. Big difference plus more torque and HP. So keeping it original might well cost plenty just in the parts. A $40K bill for complete engine rebuild these days seems par for the course, but I have not heard great things about early engine rebuilds from PCM. You could also try Phil Hearn in Eltham. He is just around the corner from his old AutoCoupe workshop that he sold to Darren. But you might have to wait as he always seems to be building 356 motors and gearboxes for a list of clients.

There are so many items in a 911 engine rebuild to consider and get done properly from heads rebuild (valve guides etc), crankcase refacing & tunnel boring, crankshaft polishing and/or machining, consequential bearing resizing (incl availability of bearings), balancing of conrods, balancing of crank, possible upgrade of oil pump whilst you are in there (I installed a 964 turbo high pressure oil pump that gave consistently great oil pressure even on hot days). Camshafts may need regrinding but all these things become apparent once the engine is completely stripped down.

Of course there are also the mandatory replacement of all critical seals that should go without saying and things like linishing of valve covers to eliminate oil leaks as much as possible. All new timing chains and tensioners need done and possibly an upgrade to hydraulic chain tensioners (if not already fitted). If PCM does the work, I would assume they do it "by the book" however some independents will suggest tried and tested upgrades that improves engine performance and engine life plus assure longevity of your engine, which after a $40K investment, you need to consider.

I believe the official Porsche factory recommendation for a complete engine rebuild is approx 42 hrs of labour, however in my experience it is more like 80 - 100 hrs and it all depends on what the components look like once stripped down and cleaned. In one of my 2.4 engines, the crankshaft needed to be replaced. Luckily I had a spare engine with a crank that was still std sizing so bearing shells were easy to find. You want to do this rebuild once, and do it properly so you end up with a strong and reliable engine that will probably perform better than new, such is the knowledge that has been gained about these motors by many mechanics over many years.

[e72phil]

Hi Adam,

this is the sort of thing you can find when stripping an engine completely down to all its bits. No wonder the oil pressure was low; too much oil being lost out the bearings and crank journals due to all this pitting.

The work to fix this alone can cost thousands of $$$ and then, the crankshaft may not even be useable again !

DSC00545.JPG DSC00551.JPG

[AdamGill]

Quick update.

I picked the car up from Porsche and dropped it off with Darren at Auto Coupe. Darren ran compression, leak down, and road tests and all indicated nothing wrong with the engine - YAY!

However oil leaks remain so engine will come out, leaks addressed, exhaust issues addressed, front suspension fixed, and an old rust weld removed and new front pan fitted (and also minor sporto and throttle adjustments).

Unfortunately earliest he can look at is Feb.

In the meantime I need to sort our wiring and air conditioning (as the current unit is also going to be removed).

Cheers
Adam

[klasikcis]

Hi Adam
Disappointing sounds like the guy I recommended for your fuel leak, that came highly recommended to me and Porsche themselves were taking the easy way out and recommending a full rebuild on the basis of oil leakage and a noisy exhaust and probably some adjustments when there is a much more economic solution. Sorry for my part in this; but sounds like it is a good outcome. Sometimes though if they need to split the cases it may escalate when it is out of the car and apart. Cheers Nev

[AdamGill]

Hi Neville

Not an issue - part of my learning and thought I would share for other members.

Once the mechanics are sorted then it will be time to sort out the body / paint ...

Cheers
Adam

Hi all

After having a recent fuel leak the mechanic had a look over the engine and suggested it was time for a full rebuild.

I took the car to Porsche Melbourne and they agreed - the quote looks like I won’t be seeing much change from $40k.

Assuming most parts come from Porsche and that they offer a classic labour rate of $161 + GST should I consider an independent ?

All comments welcome

Cheers
Adam