Introduction and WTB 911 / 912

[pjm]

Hello everyone, I'm a long time lurker but first time poster. Thank you for welcoming me to your forum.

For the past 25 years I've been dreaming of owning an Australian delivered 911 or 912 steel bumper. There have been a few for sale over the last couple of years which I now kick myself for not persuing but I'm sure we all have felt the same way.

They are certainly thin on the market at the moment. If anyone has one possibly for sale or has a lead on one I would appreciate it if you could PM me the details.

Kind regards

Peter

[npvpositive]

Hi Peter, welcome. I'm sure we will all be eager to help you spend your money!

Can you provide any more details on model preferences, year preferences, target price range, etc. It's also useful to know what is important to you, eg, matching numbers, LHD/RHD, Aussie delivered, etc.

[9er]

Welcome Peter.

[pjm]

Thanks Nick

As a baseline I'm looking for an original RHD (doesn't have to be Australian delivered though I expect it would be rare for it not to be) for either the 911 or 912 and rust free (relatively speaking a bit of spot rust is not a problem but I don't have the time for a project car). Paint can be so so condition if reflected in the price. Age anywhere from 65 to 73.

Given they are at different price points the wish list would be.

912 - up to circa $35k

Matching numbers, good cosmetic and mechanical condition, as original as can be expected for the age

911 - up to circa $70k

Non-matching numbers would be ok but generally unmolested.
No model preference but I'd assume the price point would exclude an S and beyond

Please feel free to set me straight if anyone thinks my pricing expectations are off the mark.

Thanks

Peter

[HughH]

peter
have a look at johns car for sale here and also fishcop posted about a friends car for sale in Brisbane - it looked very good value for the money being a UK delivered RHD car (although i have never seen it and have not seen John's in person for a while)

they should give you a good indication of what is around

as a piece of gratuitous advice i would always go for the best body / metal work as that is where the money is - tired mechanicals (and i am not suggesting either of the cars mentioned has any issues in either area) are a much easier and cheaper fix

[pjm]

John's car looks fantastic and would be perfect other than it is (justifiably) a bit more than I was looking to spend. Part of my journey will be understanding what I get for my money. I have not been able to find the post about Fishcop's friends car in Brisbane.

Thankyou for the advice on considering body over mechanicals in my search. I agree and a while ago I came to the realisation that I am more mentally suited to turning bolts than I am at making things smooth and shiney.

I have in my searching come across the following 912 currently for sale.

http://www.tradeuniquecars.com.au/detail/cars/cars/porsche/912/96122

Setting aside the engine upgrade, it's a conversion to RHD and my initial response is to shy away from a conversion for the potential registration dramas in NSW. Is a conversion a potential problem or am I being overly conservative?

Thanks again

Peter

[Fishcop]

Welcome Peter

The Brisbane car Hugh is referring to is a gem, but after Rennsport it seems a lot of people (including myself ) got into a "buying mood" and I'm pretty sure the car has been sold.

Jason Carol (forum sponsor with Checkered Flag) may still have his RHD '72 E for sale. It would come close to fitting your brief being factory RHD (I think AU delivery) and correct engine - though not numbers matching. Not sure about price, but you've obviously done your homework on the market at the moment.

Just my personal opinion, so here goes: I'd be fine with LHD or RHD depending on the model and condition. There are advantages to LHD with a global market keen to snap them up these days, and everyone will tell you that driving from the left in such a small car isn't really an issue. A conversion is fine, but hopefully it's been done correctly using the factory RHD scuttle panel and dash... Walk far away from poor conversion. The UK had the biggest RHD market and a lot of factory RHD cars are ex-UK. However you really need to get them checked thoroughly as salty roads were brutal on un-galvanised mild steel bodies! Matching engine numbers is nice, but really who gives a toss if the engine is still correct for the chassis. They are 40+ year old cars and many had engines replaced rather than rebuilt back in the day.

Absolutely buy a good body over mechanicals, even if it means a T over an E or S. Unless you're a sado-masochist like me.

And you've probably worked out that the market is quite strong at the moment. Have the money ready and commit quickly when you find the right car!

[9er]

Its easy for me to say because it's not my money but if you are willing to spend up to $70K on a 911, a special car like Johns would be worth going the extra yard for.
Its like money in the bank.

[Merv]

Welcome Peter. I bought a LHD 1968 911 and really like the special and distinctive experience it offers. Being over 30 years old it is fine in all respects registration wise (lights were modified). I suspect that a conversion would actually lower its value. It is rust free (however, as they say, 'the rust comes free') on all experience so far. I was looking for RHD, but now I would not hesitate to get another LHD.

[Nevada51]

John's car looks fantastic and would be perfect other than it is (justifiably) a bit more than I was looking to spend. Part of my journey will be understanding what I get for my money. I have not been able to find the post about Fishcop's friends car in Brisbane.

Thankyou for the advice on considering body over mechanicals in my search. I agree and a while ago I came to the realisation that I am more mentally suited to turning bolts than I am at making things smooth and shiney.

I have in my searching come across the following 912 currently for sale.

http://www.tradeuniquecars.com.au/detail/cars/cars/porsche/912/96122

Setting aside the engine upgrade, it's a conversion to RHD and my initial response is to shy away from a conversion for the potential registration dramas in NSW. Is a conversion a potential problem or am I being overly conservative?

Thanks again

Peter

I've written about price point examples for SWB 9111/12's in previous posts. Your 912 budget is realistic and should get you a really good converted car, or a decent original RHD car IMO. But it's just a question of patience and being willing to make a quick decision when one comes up.

Cam

[e72phil]

I agree with Fishcop about the "matching numbers" mantra that so many new buyers go on about. If you do find a car with the original engine, after 40 years or so, its definitely had work done on it, (or it very tired and smokey) and chances are, an engine case may have had to be replaced. Such was the case with my 72E where , on the recent engine rebuild, the 'Official Porsche centre' who did the prior engine rebuild had some poor machining done on the case which could not be resurrected as oversize main bearings were not available necessitating a replacement case to be found. Fortunately I had another '72 2.4 engine whose case was unmolested so the new engine still has the 'correct' case with similar era engine number - just not the original one.

So what would you rather have ? the original case that leaked oil around the main bearings and didnt lubricate this vital properly or a case with proper fitting std size bearings that will withstand more rebuilds when required ?

And how would you check for such an impossible to inspect part of an engine during your PPI ?

We also discovered some less than professional repairs inside the gearbox done by a "well known" porsche mechanic who should have known better, but repaired the box with non-correct (but fitting) parts from a later model because originals are too hard to find.

Finding these 40+ year old cars which are truly "original" is very hard indeed so newbies coming to this Forum looking for the Aussie delivered, RHD, non rusty, number matching cars , but with a limited budget, need to accept the reality that what they are looking for, may not exist.

Those cars that do meet the criteria are often already owned by enthusiasts who dont want to sell, and if they do, will not be selling at unrealistically low prices.

It does seem that the recent Rennsport event has fired up some buyers to start looking for that classic 911. I know the feeling, it happened to me around the time of the 50 years celebration for Porsche in Australia. But fortunately, cars were a bit cheaper back then.

I dont want to sound to negative to those looking for cars, just realistic. I have owned plenty of early 911's and have been thru all the pitfalls. There are a few other members of this forum with similar knowledge and experience so I hope our advice is heeded, which is, after all, the reason people gravitate to this Forum for the depth of knowledge the members have,
.