Leica M Interim Measures

[DJ911]

Because I know this forum has experts of all sorts and I have never received anything but excellent advice here...

Have made the decision to stand on the top of a slippery slope and work towards getting some Leica gear. I am familiar with the brand from my childhood, as my father had several M3 bodies and a good collection of glass. Much to my dismay he sold it all and focused exclusively on Hasselblad, not that I object to the medium format - just would have preferred he kept both

I want to start down the digital path, but will firstly purchase a lens or two (starting with a 35mm Summicron). I do not want to commit to a Leica M right now (unless I can find a hot second hand deal) as I expect an updated model next year.

Am therefore considering my short term, comparatively inexpensive, option for using the M lenses. From the reading I have done the Ricoh GXR comes up as a good option. Does anybody have any experience with the Ricoh, or suggested alternatives? I am a little cautious with the M8 (even 8u or 8.2) because of aging technology and reported issues (shutter and LCD) with Lieca's first stab at digital. The M9's are still pricy enough that I would start to consider the M again.

Cheers,

[Dodgie]

Slippery slope indeed. Nothing wrong with Leica at all, but Why not consider the Fujifilm X1-Pro? I have one with various single focal length lenses (18, 35, 60 macro and 55-200 zoom). Never had a better camera - beats my Nikon D2X for usability and image hands down. Interesting review here http://kenrockwell.com/fuji/x-pro1.htm

[DJ911]

Hi Dodgie,

Have heard / read good things about the X1 Pro. I am looking for a more 'raw' experience (range finder, manual focus, etc)... same reasons I drive a 45 year old car every day OK, maybe also some aesthetic and snobbery comes into play, though I won't admit it

Cheers,
Dirk

[Dodgie]

I can understand the manual focus desire - autofocus is the one thing I don't like about the Fuji. Then again, my daily driver is an automatic....

Roger

[Merv]

Cameras can be an addiction. After some soul searching, I sold my Leica, my old 50's Zeiss, and my modern Canon and bought an Olympus E-M5 with the new mirrorless technology, with a bunch of high end lenses. Light, fast, great colour and convenience.

[markymark_1968]

Hi Dirk. How weird that I flick onto typ901 tonight and see this thread, as I am literally just contemplating the future of my Leica m9! I am a professional photographer, started my career on Leica m6's and have now had a M8 and an M9, purely for personal use, not professional for several years! I use canon and phase one gear for work, so I am lucky to have the luxury of good gear for the right occasion! So it all really comes down to what you are planning to use the gear for... People photography, landscapes, general use?

There is a certain amount of pain that comes with using a digital Leica rangefinder camera, especially if you are not used to using that type of focussing system. They can be frustrating in many situations - rubbish files over 800iso, have ordinary battery life, ordinary file buffer, inane LED menu - but to use one properly and get good results is a satisfying feeling! I use mine for street-style photography when discretion and speed are paramount and I have shot some great work with mine over the last few years when the conditions have been good.

But they take some dedication, they require deep pockets for optics (summicron 35 is a pretty good start though), and the files are quite flat straight of the camera so they need some post productions to make them really pop IMHO.

If you buy a second hand M8 or M9 there are some serious problems with both (M8s have an issue with the lcd screen developing a discolouration for which there is no fix as they don't make the parts anymore; some M9's have a fault with the sensor, which currently Leica is replacing regardless of the warranty period, but for how long?...)

And the alternatives? Well, like I said I am actually considering selling mine, for a couple of reasons: it is a lot of money to have tied up in a camera and lens that I don't use that often, to be honest...I love the idea of a Leica, but compared to my film leicas, they do not really pose a bang for your buck proposition. The Leica m6 was a true professional photojournalists camera; the M8/M9 are not. Very few professionals use them nowadays, most professionals I know use the Fuji XT, xpro or the Sony variations because they give great performance for great money. They are not perfect either, and I find the electronic rangefinders in these cameras a bit annoying - but in the end the value for money and low light file quality cannot be matched by the Leica M cameras. Full stop.

I might add that Leica have just announced another digital camera - the Leica Q - which is a fixed lens electronic rangefinder camera which is getting rave reviews - but it is also $$$ and I feel the fixed lens is a bit too wide for everyday use - 28mm. I will be considering this as well as the Fuji options in the next little while, but I may end up just holding fire and tucking the M9 away until the next perfect weather day!!

Good luck - feel free to pm me if you would like to chat further.

[DJ911]

Hi Mark,

Greatly appreciate you taking the time to share your experience.

I too love the 'idea' of Lieca though your post has forced me to try and clearly define what is important to me when choosing a camera.

The intended use is travel (street, landscapes, architecture, people) and general day to day stuff at home. Travel for me can mean third world destinations and a desire for being discrete, both not wanting to be extremely obvious about taking photographs and also not having equipment that *looks* too flashy / expensive. Hence a desire for equipment on the smaller size and somewhat timeless in appearance.

From a user experience perspective I want something that is basic / pure where technology does not get in the way too much. I want something that is of good quality and looks (yep, I am shallow) and feels it. I don't mind working / needing to think to get a result. If the process is not enjoyable then the camera will end up spending too much time in a draw. (At least this part of my post makes some sense on the 901 forum )

The only Leicas I have experience with, that of the film era, appeared to tick a lot of these boxes. I was anticipating their M digital efforts would encapsulate this also. I had read of some of the limitations you mention with the M8/M9 but was hopeful this was due to Leica being slow to get on the digital bandwagon and that the M 240 was a big improvement. Have you experienced / heard otherwise?

Another Leica draw card for me was the excellent reputation of their lenses and that I could build up a collection that would be useable with future bodies. Hence my original question about an interim body option.

Romance aside though it would be foolish of me not to consider better value alternatives.

I will take you up on that offer to chat - don't worry it shouldn't be as much of a counselling session as this post would suggest.

Cheers,
Dirk

[DJ911]

Spent some time in my local camera store today. It appears what I want may not exist - at least as one camera. Specifically the combination of interchangeable lenses and my idea of 'discrete'.

The X1-Pro was impressive but with it just looked/felt a little too large. In fairness the Leica M is every bit as big, however the smaller diameter of the M lenses go a long way to making it feel/look more subtle.

The combination of the Ricoh GXR, A12 M Mount and Leica lens was pretty cool. Nice and compact, manual focus, did tick some of my 'user experience' wants. Unsurprisingly certainly not as aesthetically pleasing and without the high end feel of the X1-Pro. Additionally Ricoh has discontinued the GXR and investing in M lenses without a clear idea of possible future camera body choices seems a little rash.

Current thinking is to hold out on the high end gear, see where things go over the next 12 to 18 months with the (likely to be) updated updated Leica M and other options.

In the interim I will look at a slightly more compact camera specifically for travel purposes. I tried out the Fujifilm X100T today and was fairly impressed. Anybody have any experience with this unit?

Cheers,

[markymark_1968]

God, this is getting weird! I have spent half the night on the web researching the x100t and was just about to pop on here to suggest you look at that, dirk! I think it is a great camera for the money, and seems to be a winner on so many levels! Have a look at this guys work:

http://jacksimonphotography.com

All shot with the x100t and is as good as any street work I have ever seen! And for the same money as a Leica M, you could buy an x100t and buy an old m6 and a nice lens for the odd day you might feel nostalgic enough to shoot film!

Let me know how you proceed...

[DJ911]

Hi Mark, seems we had similar evenings Everything I read makes me think it's the right choice for me at the moment. Just so happens the outfit I visited today has a mint condition second hand unit in black for $1100....

[markymark_1968]

Cool. Let me know if you decide not to buy it - I might jump on it!

[Dodgie]

Hmmm - Leica M Edition "Leica 60"???

"Radical concentration on the basic essentials required for photography".......

[DJ911]

Hmmm - Leica M Edition "Leica 60"???

"Radical concentration on the basic essentials required for photography".......

If I was capable of making a purchase decision that did not consider value but rather only emotion, I would own one of these.

[DJ911]

Cool. Let me know if you decide not to buy it - I might jump on it!

Apparently 24hrs was too slow - gone damn it.

[Fishcop]

Not a photographer's little finger here, but have you tried the micro 4/3 format? Seems lots of (smaller) body and lens choices. Live Merv I went with an Olympus body, but have some other branded lenses.