Homologation Info

[CamBiscuit]

I'm In the middle of filling out a Classic Adelaide entry

Can anyone tell me what the Homologation number and type is for a 1971 911 T is? I've been searching but can't find any specific information.

Thanks

[alexwebster]

mate, got me stuffed, never heard of a homologation number for Classic! Just leave it and send the entry in!

[e72phil]

just enter TYP901 !

[CamBiscuit]

Yeah weird, it wasn't on last years form.....

Might have to start a new thread soon to see what sort of numbers are going to be there this year. Another dinner might be in order I think

[Andrew B]

Cam

Ive enetered twice now with only limited info because I didn't know some of the answers as I hadn't built the car. Send it off with the blanks and they'll query anything they need. Very helpfull people.

[CamBiscuit]

Glad to see I'm not the Lone Ranger....!

Thanks guys, entry is in.

[OBRUT]

"Ive entered twice now with only limited info because I didn't know some of the answers "

lamest cheater excuse ever... (insert smiley face thing here)

[JDCW72]

A related question in this tread which some more experienced competitors may be able to clarify.
For the “Classic” section of the Suncoast Classic and Classic Adelaide, the cut-off date is for a vehicle manufactured before 31 December 1971. My 1972 911T was manufactured Dec 1971, information I went to great trouble to preserve.
In the competition entry list of Classic Adelaide there is a 1972 2.4, model not specified, competing in Category 5 Late Classic yet nearby on the same list is an entry of a 1973 2.4 911S competing in the earlier Category 4 Classic section. I understand from the owner of the 1973 “S” that he successfully argued that his car is a run-out model of the 1971 version of his car. I am obviously not inferring any wrongdoing on the part of the owner of the “S” as he openly addressed the issue with the organizers of the event. When comparing the 1971 “S”, the 1973 car has, at least, a larger engine and a different gearbox. You could argue, I suppose, that the 1973 car is the same specification as a 1972 2.4 911S manufactured Sept to Dec period of 1971. I do not agree with that argument, but, if it is accepted by the organizers, it would appear that all TYP901’s other than the 2.7RS should be admitted to the “Classic” section of the event. Surely for fair competition, the clearly stated requirements for each category should be strictly applied. Can anyone clarify how this all works? Thanks.

[alexwebster]

interesting!!!

[OBRUT]

john,

your build date is irrelevant for tarmac rallies. you enter the car as per its actual specification.

for example, my RS rep is built from a 1970 911T. however, i can enter it in:

C2 (ie. the old LMS limited modified) in category 5 as per 1973 2.7RS spec; or

C3 (the old MMS modified spec) in category 4 as per 1971 2.2E. however, i can't run C2 is category 4 as the increase in engine capacity from 2.2 to 2.7 is outside that allowed by C2 rules.

if you're running in competition, you should work out what classes/category your car can suit and then pick the one with lowest handicap factor. send me a pm if you would like to discuss this - it can get pretty involved.

[alexwebster]

almost as hard as choosing gear ratios isn't it Ryan!

[OBRUT]

almost mr w - as we will see below...


"You could argue, I suppose, that the 1973 car is the same specification as a 1972 2.4 911S manufactured Sept to Dec period of 1971."

john,

this is essentially correct. as 2.4/915 eguipped 911's were available in 1971 then you can run these components in cat 4 cars.

"I do not agree with that argument"

can i ask why not?

"but, if it is accepted by the organizers, it would appear that all TYP901’s other than the 2.7RS should be admitted to the “Classic” section of the event."

this is basically correct, so long as they have no other modifications which make them ineligible for cat 4. however, you can still run a 2.7RS spec car in cat 4 as the rules allow up to a 17% displacement increase. 2341cc plus 17% equals 2739cc, thus a 2.7 litre motor is allowed in this class. if you enter the car as an E then MFI is also allowed. (hence, i enter my car as a 1971 2.4E)

similarly, if you put a 2.8 or 2,9 in your car, your would have to enter in cat 5 - as engines with capacity within 17% were only available after 1971.


by the way - historic racing does not work this way in australia. to get a group S logbook, your car spec has to match your chassis number. to get a group N logbook, your car spec has to match a car than raced as a touring car back in the day.

i hope this helps.

[JDCW72]

Ryan, Thanks for such a detailed response. I am on the other side of the world at the moment so it is morning and I have just read your entries. Although I have time enough over here to open a can of worms on the TYP901 web site, I don't have access to the mountains of paper one accumulates regarding these events. My comments were based on the central befief that the date of manufacture of the vehicle was the starting point in classification. I am sure I have read this in the Classic Adelaide Supp Regs but for some reason I can't access their we site at the moment to download and find that reference. My comment about questioning whether the 1973 911S equals a 1971 911S was based entirely on the date of manufacture premise and that it seemed a bit of a stretch to place the 1973 made car in the earlier group. I am so far from the pointy end of the field in these events that this is all of only academic interest to me but looking down the entry list for Adelaide, it seemed to be a glaring anomaly. Not so glaring perhaps. Thanks again for the answer to my question and I shall contact you when I get back if I haven't been able to do the calculations.
Regards.

[JDCW72]

Ryan, I'll try this without spelling errors. I can't get on to Adelaide's web site but there is no substantial difference between the regs for Noosa and Adelaide and I could get to the site of the completed event. I have pasted below the info that I was drawing on. I am only too happy to be contradicted. Cheers,
John
101: SCOPE OF THE EVENT
101.1 Eligibility
The SunCoast Classic Rally (hereinafter called the ‘event’), an event for classic sporting and grand touring cars in the following divisions:
1 Classic – for vehicles manufactured after January 1st 1947, and prior to December 31st 1971
Category 2 – 1/1/1947 to 31/12/1961
Category 3 - 1/1/1962 to 31/12/1965
Category 4 – 1/1/1966 to 31/12/1971
2 Late Classic – for vehicles manufactured after January 1st 1972 and prior to December31st 1990.
Category 5 – 1/1/1972 to 31/12/1976
Category 6 - 1/1/1977 to 31/12/1981
Category 7 - 1/1/1982 to 31/12/1990
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]

[OBRUT]

john

firstly, i'm jealous that you're in europe and i'm at work...

the section you quoted is only part of the story, they also include:

"Technical Eligibility of vehicles in all divisions is detailed in the applicable CAMS Tarmac Rally Technical Regulations."

which state:

"Each automobile shall be manufactured prior to 1982, or be a model/specification which matches that of an automobile manufactured prior to 1982"


thus, the date of manuf is not the only criteria. i think the approach is a good one as a "72 model year" 2.4E delivered in late 71 is no different to a 73 2.4E delivered in mid 73 and, in my view, they should compete against one another.

likewise, a 73RS is just a regular MFI 911 with a 2.7 capacity. as the rules alllow someone with a MFI 2.4 to enlarge their engine to 2.7 then i think it would be odd to penalise someone with an RS for having the same size engine from day one. for example, i know of a 74 3.0RS replica built on a 69 chassis and another on a 85 chassis - the end result/specification is identical.

the rules also allow "period reproductions" (i.e you could start with a bunch of sheet metal pressings and build a brand new 19xx 911x tomorrow and, so long as it was the same as one built at an earlier point in time, it would be eligible. given there is no performance advantage gained in doing so, then the 'new' car shouldn't be penalised.

this is not a porsche issue either. you can enter a 260z as a 240z or swap engine sizes between years in 105 alfas. however, the interchangability of parts in 911s have caused the regulation writers some hassles over the years - as few other cars offer the same flexibility. for example, engine upgrades are specifically restricted for 911's (e.g. you cant run a 3.0, 3.2, 3.6 etc in a 911 that began life with a mag cased engine).

the reg's also specify what modifications you can make within each handicap level C1, C2 or C3 (used to be standard SS, limited modified LMS and modified MMS).

i do these events for fun, and accordingly drive at a pretty conservative pace. however, i still think it is worthwhile classing your car as competitively as possible - and avoiding changes which move you up classes for no real effect on the road.

i got off the track a bit, but i hope the above makes those entry lists look a little less odd.