Early 911's and parts starting to dry up in USA ?

[e72phil]

I was talking to a dealer from Melbourne who recently returned from a California buying trip and he was lamenting that parts prices are going right up and that Germans and Dutch are in the US with pockets full of Euros buying up all the early cars they can find.

At the shipping facility he uses in Long Beach, his contact had just shipped 44 container load of cars and parts to Europe.

If you read the US news and Porsche forums, its becomng apparent some people are hurting with the credit squeeze and maybe toys are being sold up ? So there's a combination of cashed up European raiders & pilagers plus some (getting) desparate sellers and a general drying up of parts, all contributing to reducing the available cars for others to consider.

A few years back, finding cars between US$10 - $15K was still very possible. Now we are seeing 911T's seeling around $25 - $30K. Even with a strong A$, early car prices are on the way up and trying to land a good car out here around $40 - $50K is getting harder. Freight costs used ot be around $3000 for a shared container. Recent shipment (for me) have seen this up around $7000 - $8500 when unpacking, transport, quarantine, cleaning etc, etc all get taken into account. The GST is on top of that.

Witness too the local market prices for early 911's. It wasnt that long ago new buyers entering the market expected to find cars around A$30 - $35K and probably could. Now the entry price for an early car seems to start around $50K.

And whereas before buyers all "had to have" an Aussie delivered, matching numbers RHD car, it seesm sights are being lowered just to get into the market and get a running early 911. We are seeing stratospheric prices for Aussie 73 91S's and RS's and E's are not that far behind.

I know we have had a few new recent members who have been in this boat (Polizei ?) and would welcome their thoughts and comments on this subject as many have been thru this dilemma about what to buy.

I also know some members who bought in the past 2 years who are now very grateful they made the jump and even if they dont have a perfect matching numbers car, feel very happy with their acquisition and the fact they are "in the market".

Looking forward to some good comments and discussion on this subject......

[Jeff Eelkema]

Thanks Phil

Interesting issue. I keep a fairly good eye on the early "S" register and Pelican and there seems to be some concern about the cars going to Europe. I think they have probably missed the point that this demand is keeping the prices solid in the US when all other economic indicators suggest prices should be falling. Given the US economy is in serious strife, at least some Porsche fans must be feeling the heat. I "got into the market" with my 69E project late last year and feel I did well but there are still some reasonable deals showing up in the States even allowing for the additional transport costs, praticularly with our strong dollar. It is just a big hassle for a first timer with no US contacts to buy a car on the other side of the world. I suspect there could be nice little sideline for someone in the scene in the US to facitate a broking service but it might not be popular with the locals. I'd like to find another 69E as a parts car, something with a rusted or bent body but otherwise complete, but it just seems the logistics are too hard.

I wanted a modified car so didn't want to pay top dollar for an original car, also didn't want to be the person responsible for "removing" the originality. While not 901s, there are still plenty of cheap early short hood cars about and if racing/specific model isn't an issue, backdating certainly looks very viable with the advantage of a bigger engine as well.

Cheers
Jeff

[griffiths_r]

given the economic times it seems like an interesting discussion to revisit.

I find it interesting that everyone seems to go through the same issues of wanting everything then realising that unless you have bucket loads of cash, it isn't going to happen. maybe this is just relief that i wasn't the only one to have my eyes opened!

I am happy i bought when i did. and i am very happy with the car i bought for the money I paid. i have no illusions that had i bought a couple of years earlier I would have paid significantly less... but I also have no illusions that I'd have a hard time trying to find a similar car for the same money now. no way will i predict what the future will hold for our car prices...

as our cars get older it is inevitable that parts and cars will be come rarer (and more viable to restore - even the worst of basket cases). supply and demand will dictate prices go up - assuming that there is a community out there like ours wanting to continue driving classics. Like 356's, the older the car, the higher the value placed on originality - you can't recreate or restore originality!!! this will also drive higher prices for original cars. you want to pay less (like i did), then compromise on something (originality, condition, LHD/RHD etc).

what will be really interesting to watch is how obscene petrol prices affect demand for our cars... a cayenne turbo S will do 16 L/100kms... from the thredbo trip my car (and clyde's 69S) does about 18L/100kms !!!!!! that will HAVE to affect demand at some point in the future (if not already).

my couple of euros worth...

rich

[Polizei]

Phil has raised a very valid point...

The first time buyer such as myself sets out for the ultimate 901 within their budget.

The criteria for selection as mentioned earlier: RHD/LHD/converted to RHD, originality, specification and condition all come into play.

As many of you may know I was interested in the Adelaide car for sale recently for which I have paid a deposit. At this time there were also other cars available varying from LHD imports to cars fully set up for racing. An original RHD example was beyond my budget (although Tiger got a great deal from what I understood when I spoke to the owner).

At the end of the day I needed to put into perspective exactly how I wished to use the car, which for me was quite regularly. This made LHD more unattractive. If I was using the car purely as a weekender LHD would not have bothered me.

The option of converting an original LHD to RHD car costs upwards of $12,000. No doubt the scarcity of parts is now contributing to this. This is now also pushing prices closer to the equivalent original RHD car - in Aus.

I also considered how this modification may in fact devalue the vehicle by affecting its originality. These cars really are in a world market now and you would obviously have a bigger market with a LHD car. So is converting to RHD such a good idea?

Outcome: For me I suppose I compromised on originality (body/interior changes/converted RHD). I knew however that condition was well above average. My aim is to put some things back to 'original' (eg interior), whilst things like the RS flares don't bother me in a huge way at this stage.

Time will tell

Just my 2 cents

Ed

[griffiths_r]

Hey Ed, you do touch on a good point, prices going up doesn't stop the fact that everything is relative. There are still good deals out there on good cars - it just might be slightly harder to find them!

rich

[Terminator]

So did you buy it?

[Fishcop]

Being privy to Tiger's recent swoop, it appears there is the odd bargain - but you've got to be ready to go!

Looking back, I now realise I picked up my car at bottom dollar and really have done very well, although I bought it to drive and still have no intention of selling - so 'very well' is relative.

My thoughts now are, don't convert a LHD (one day the Americans will want 'em back). And a nice backdated SC or Carerra is a worthwhile alternative that can be returned to original if ever they become the fad.

I'm still hovering off an early 911 here in Briz that has been in storage more than 15 years... It's time I tried harder

[Polizei]

Essentially yes, but deal wont be finalised for a few weeks.

[Terminator]

As an owner of 4 LHD cars my views are fairly obvious. I love driving LHS and I even went to get in the wrong side of the Ford after last Saturdays visit to the pool. I would never swap a LHD to RHD kills the car for both markets.

Prices for parts are skyrocketing, no doubt, there is a lot less good stuff on E bay now than there used to be.

Porsches have become very popular again, historic racing has a part to play in that also, as you can win in a Porsche!!!

How about the 43,000 mile time warp 71T I bought for $26,000 2 years ago I wonder how much now.

My first RS was a mind boggling $70k US, sold for mind blowing $165US some 2.5 years later and cost me nearly twice that for the latest version. I'd say prices are on the way up and I don't see them coming down in the near future.

[griffiths_r]

clyde's LHD cars certainly do get a fair whack of attention - particularly the 69S... who knows if it's because of the driver being in the "wrong" place or the rally looks or that exhaust note when at idle (or flat to the floor). so if you like being centre of attention, LHD is it.

I agree with clyde... I would never consider changing a LHD to RHD.

as all these cars become more valuable we will see more of the 356 world... a couple of bolts and a pile of rust is worth restoring! so maybe LHD to RHD conversions will become viable to return to their natural state...? as an example, just look at Jason's green beastie. Haven't even seen it in person, but I certainly saw it in its updated guise... what a change!!!!

the only downside to LHD is that they keep trying to get back on the "right" side of the road!!!!

[e72phil]

I knew this topic would stir up some good conversation.

Keep it coming.

[hmd]

the only downside to LHD is that they keep trying to get back on the "right" side of the road!!!!

nah that's just optimal racing line

[hmd]

Classic cars are like shares in the stock market.
They goes up and down in cycle but the long term trend will be up.
Unless you picked over-inflated lemons in the first place like Allco, B&B etc...

can someone fill in some example of classic lemons?

[Fishcop]

can someone fill in some example of classic lemons?

Jensen Interceptor
Lancia Beta
Brock Falcon
Delorian
996 :p

[e72phil]

John, how could you forget the Leyland P76 ?

I remember its main redeeming feature was you could fit an entire 44 Gal drum in the boot. Talk about a long range fuel tank.