Engine Rebuild

[hippo]

Guys,

Would appreciate some input into deciding on an engine rebuild.

The old girl is puffing a bit under full throttle of late ...normal driving is OK.

If I go a rebuild my options seem to be

1. Just rebuild to E spec again
2. Go a little bit extra to s spec
3. 2.7 with E stacks Im told will be tourque central
4. Full RS with all the fruit (and very grumpy finance director) this gets my vote !!
5. Do nothing and keep driving her
6.Cut my losses and sell out

I drive the car every day 80+ k's mainly open road with a bit of city driving.

Main concern is future value appreciation, daily driveability.. and having some fun.

Would appreciate the board jumping right in to help the decision.

Andrew

[epilot]

hi andrew
my question to you is what is your budget?
18 months ago Simon Greenwood at Autowerks on the Central Coast completely rebuilt my e motor to e spec for $13k including parts and labour, this included pistons and barrels, machining, powder coating and cad plating all the tinware and bits and pieces but did not include rebuilding the mfi pump + $5k, ssi's $2k. add your s cams, rs bits and bobs and you can understand my question... and it is a thing of great beauty, ample torque and total reliability.
cheers
craig

[e72phil]

Andrew,

given what you have done so far to this car and maintaining its originality, why not rebuild to original specs ? Once you go down the 2.7 road, tempting as it is, its not a 2.4E anymore.

And with a 2.7, wont you have to mess with the pump to uprate the fuel flow a bit ? Keeping it std and original will certainly hold the value of the car up there. Just look at what fine original examples of these cars have been selling for lately.

You could cheat a little in the rebuild (as was done to my car) and install S cams which makes it breathe better at higher revs yet maintains the torque and tractability of the 2.4E engine. I would recommend fitting the SSi's at the same time too.

of course it will depend if you need new pistons and barrels as this gets expensive and is often why others say "what the heck, lets go for 2.7" as the price difference is either minimal or nothing different.


If the car will remain as a daily driver, I guess it depends on how many WRX's and SS comodore's you encounter on the daily trek to work that keep annoying you as to whether you need more grunt ??

You really need to sit down with a good mechanic and run a spreadsheet on all the costs. Labour probably wont change much but deviating from the std rebuild will certainly have repercussions (MFI pump etc).

Above all, get a detailed quote from the engine builder and get them to stand by it (no surpises at the end).

Hope this helps in the decision process.

[Paul W]

If you're concerned about originality why not buy a new case, build up the engine you want and put the existing in storage. When (if) it comes time to sell the car drop the original back in and you can sell it as a matching numbers unit. Most rebuilders have old cases they can sell you, as the basis of a rebuild, or the odd 7R case appears on ebay now and again too.

In all sounds like a fun project.

[CamBiscuit]

I'm with Paul W.

I bought my 71 'T' with the original motor in bits and the go fast 2.4 'S' spec motor (with carbies) installed. I liked the fact that I have the original bits if I want to go back to original and also a bit of a hot rod motor to play with and enjoy the extra power.

It seems to me you have a yearning for some extra oomph!! Get an old case and build your hot rod :twisted: :twisted:

[OBRUT]

my turn: a bit of smoke doesn't mean failure imminent - i would happily keep driving. i drove my first 911 (2.2E) like this for 3 years. so long as the chains are good a stock 911 engine is unbelievably tough.

i think phil has a good point - if you go 2.7 then you will risk losing a segment of your resale market (ie. those after an original 2.4E). however, if resale is not reallly on the cards then build a car you enjoy driving.

i would either opt for the 2nd engine route or rebuild your 2.4 with some well proven mod's (bigger valves, raised compression, more aggressive cams etc).

other issues that come to mind:

1. with a 2.7 you may need to fit an oil cooler.

2. there are some great modern cam grinds available for these cars that i think are superior to the stock grinds (eg. a GE60 is like a modern S grind) i have GE80's in my 2.7 and they are fantastic in terms of power and also driveability.

3. if your heat exchangers are in good nick, then i would just have them ceramic coated. SSI's won't make any more power - they are just a stainless steel replica.

[reedminor]

Andrew,

Agree with Ryan on many points... and it depends when your engine smokes... all the time, on deceleration, start up?

I like the idea of a matching number car but wouldn't be scared on modifying it retaining the original case.

And it depends upon what you have in mind for the car ... keep it, sell it, dirve and love it?

One of my favourite engines is 2.5, which was based on a 2.4E. This was in my good friend Mark Goddard's car... it went like a cut snake, had torque and delivered 200+ reliable horsepower for many years. I could stand corrected by others on the board, but I think this had 2.2S pistons.

It depends upon how much power you want to... My car has 2.2E P&C's, E cams and webers on the original case.... I picked up maybe 35 bhp but didn't need to change gearboxes, brakes, fit front mounted oil coolers etc. And to look at it no one would be any the wiser.

It'll be a fun project... parts will be very expensive... or you could start collecting bits gradually. New Pistons and cylinders are dear... and the pump won't be cheap to rebuild if you feel that's needed.

Be sure to pick a good mechanic... there are 3-4 which I have heard only good things about, and 2 of these I've used myself. I'm assuming you'd have it done in Sydney? Or would you go elsewhere?

Happy to have a chat if you want.. you have my number.

[lisa_spyder]

Questions and choices....

Andrew,

Lay your needs on the table with your chosen repairer...I know you are in very goods hands up there.

Remember to inform him that yours is not a standard ratio gearbox, which is why your car has so much mumbo ....I know from personal driving experience.

Contrary to belief, there is much more to going 2.7 than just barrels and pistons and recalibration of the MFI pump. This you already know I think. There is no going back from a 2.7 upgrade as the block needs to be modified for 2.7. The barrels don't just drop in.

And as you have no history on the engine, I think the recommendation given to you to do the bottom end (which is what constitutes a complete rebuild along with the top end) is warranted.

Question is ...Power? Torque? Or both?

Just how smokey is smokey anyway? What are your repairer's thoughts on time frame for rebuild? You know you are dealing with a man of highest integrity - he won't pull the engine down unless he deems it necessary. Trust his experience and judgment on this. As for a firm quote, well that is impossible until the engine is completely apart and by that stage you're into the job. Best and worst case scenarios are what you can expect from any reputable and knowledgeable repairer - for instance, how can anyone know until the engine is completely dismantled and the block is measured whether it needs line boring or not? What about the crank? Does it need grinding? Therefore what size main bearings will be required? There is substantial difference in price between std on the case/std on the crank or under size on the crank versus oversize on the case.

Decide your long terms needs and desires from this engine and your car...get the job done right and therefore once. But only you can decide what you really need and want from this engine....anything is achievable - it's all about the $$$ as you know.

Cheers,

Lisa