Starter struggling

[patrick911]

Hi guys,

I had troubles getting the car started last weekend, and I like your advice on a way forward.
The car has had difficulties going lately; the starter seems to really struggle to get the engine running. It worked sufficiently to get the car going when i left home, but last Sunday it just didn't want to go after I stopped for 5 to 10 minutes. The starter was really struggling to go round and did not have enough force to get the engine running.

Just as I called RACV I still managed to get it going, but the issue remains.
Now I've spent some time this morning browsing 'the internets' for similar issues, and it looks as if I need to do the following. I am interested to see if you have additional advise.

I need to add that before I left I had the batteries trickle charged overnight, and when it runs, it doesn't skip a beat, so I do not suspect the batteries.

Also, if i shut the car down and start straight away, it will start almost immediately.

1) check earthing in general and power when cranking.
2) check & clean connection points on the starter engine.
If the above is fine, my conclusion would be that the starter engine may need replacement. You guys agree?
Anything related to the solenoid I should test?
Also, if I replace it, would it make sense to go for a high-torque starter?

thanks in advance!
Pat

[MrUpwey]

This thread may be helpful Patrick

http://www.typ901.org/showthread.php?t=3232&highlight=reduction+starter

[Merv]

Pat, I went through the same set of issues (see another thread Starter Mystery). In my case it was the starter and also a damaged ring gear, due to the starter.

Rebuilt original Bosch starter and solenoid is available at quite reasonably price in Australia in about 24 hrs. I avoided the hi-torque ones as I was not convinced they wouldn't damage the new flywheel, and it wasn't original. There are plenty of threads on these.

Also check (as you have) the earth and add more! The starter is easy to access on the 911 but check the alignment on the bell housing. Bench testing of the operation of the solenoid and starter is easy. Last, fit a starter relay as described elsewhere to get more direct current flow to the starter.

Then should it should fly!

[Fishcop]

Patrick, how old is your battery(s)? If you're not sure get them tested. Likewise have the alternator checked as well (are you getting any bouncing tacho issues?)

Double check the earth straps but it's likely to be the starter and as Merv suggested, they're not too expensive to have reconditioned.

The thing with electrical stuff in my experience is they all go out in sympathy with each other...

[Merv]

Mate of mine turned up this week in his new Ferrari 599. Lovely car for half a mill ... When he went to go it wouldn't start. Bit of checking with my meter, showed a battery with 7.8V when in the car. Out of the car was 13V. Tested it under load and it collapsed and needed to be replaced. You never know, as John says.

[NICHOLASJCRAIG]

I had some issues a few months ago with my starter. After some investigations I found the PO had installed a ford solenoid in line with the starter solenoid.

After some research online, I found that the ford solenoid is used in some cases where the starter solenoid contacts are worn/corroded. The ford solenoid effectively allows for higher than normal starter current to hit the starter solenoid (compared to the normal ignition circuit) and turn the starter. Alternatively, it could have been installed to reduce the load on the ignition switch.

Ultimately, I had a number of things that I had to clean up due to the PO installing relays/solenoids in the ignition, but the ford solenoid could be a cheap/effective option for you...

N

[Merv]

The Ford Solenoid was a common fix. A simple starter relay will do the same job better. I made one for the 356 last week for $10 and it really spins well now with all its massive 6V. Takes the pressure off the ignition switch as well. I can send a diagram if that helps.

However, really do add another modern cable earth, or 2, and also clean the terminals on the solenoid. If no, change bench test the starter with your battery. Get a re-built one in AUS if needed and bolt it on.

[patrick911]

Thanks guys - much appreciated,

@John, funny you mention the dancing tacho, I do have that as well, but I've had that almost from the moment I bought the car in 2005.

Anyway, I'm off to Europe this Friday but will sort it all out when I'm back in a few weeks. Thanks again team, very useful tips!

[patrick911]

An update for future reference.

I started measuring the voltage across the battery poles, which was pretty low (under 12V) and once again after I started the car (13.5V).
This to me indicated that there didn't seem anything wrong with the recharging part, but as soon as I stopped the engine, power dropped quite fast.
Clearly my batteries were shot.
I never suspected them because I was convince I replaced them when I imported the car, but that wasn't the case. These Varta batteries had been in since 2006 (!!)
I got replacements from Ariel in Collingwood - nice fit and with excellent cranking power. Not that expensive either so I agree with Clyde - highly recommended!

The car starts immediately now, so the starter is still fine.

[Merv]

Good news Patrick. I would suggest that you also install an extra ground cable from the starter -ve terminal to the body. The brass webbing ones are just not as good as the modern cables.