At the risk of starting another heated discussion, I felt I needed to comment on the mantra I hear all too often about matching numbers and aussie delivery (MNAD) being so 'critical'.
Lets not even talk about 'investment quality' as well as this is also creeping into the conversation more and more lately.
I doubt many buyers have seen a 40-50 yr old magnesium engine case from an early 911 opened up nor do they know about the many issues that arises with old magnesium and how it wears and degrades.
Case in point - my 1972 911E had a complete engine rebuild about 5 years ago by Phil Hearn at Auto Coupe. When we pulled it down, several major issues became apparent (oh and BTW it was running fine before I chose to do the rebuild save the usual oil leaks and some blue smoke blowing in certain conditions, plus low oil pressure).
After having its last rebuild by an official Porsche centre (that will remain nameless) some 10 years earlier, when we split the case it was found the previous tunnel boring (if they ever did it) had ruined the journals and there was major oil pressure loss between the case and the lower bearing shell. Since oversize bearings were not available, it was impossible to line bore the case and fit the required larger shells for a rebuild. There were also some other wear problems inside the case that meant it was no longer viable to use.
So what now about a matching number case ? Obviously that case was not going to work so along with it went its 'matching number' . Sure we could try to rebuild it somehow but this would compromise the end product . So I had another 72 T/E engine which, when pulled apart, proved to be in excellent original condition. Case number was from the same year and not far of the original engine no, but not as per the COA of my car.
I kept the case for the future in case someone decided to make those bearings plus the other issues could be now repaired . We then built up a really bulletproof motor with new P's & C's, a 964RS oil pump (100 psi all day long) and the usual pressure fed chain tensioners plus had it fully balanced.
I feel a whole lot happier now, especially with great oil pressure that previously had been leaking past the bearings and not lubricating the crank as it should have. Had I left it 'matching numbers', then sold it on, what would the buyer have felt if he blew up the car due to poor oil pressure, albeit that the engine was recently 'rebuilt' ??
Lets face it, old engines can wear out and need to be replaced. Talking to another club member with a Cooper S, he said it was common to replace a worn engine with a rebuilt one from a Mini expert as buyers were more interested in longevity of the mechanicals rather than perfect provenance. I also recently heard about the engine in a 72T Targa I had sold a while ago (being matching numbers) that, when recently pulled down, was found to have 5 correct conrods and one from a later model car which moved around on the crank. I thought the car drove OK as did the buyer when he test drove and then bought it. But the number on the engine case was ‘correct’.
I think the current mantra of buyers on the whole matching number thing (and Aussie delivery vs original factory RHD) has been driven by journalists or other classic car buffs who feel a car with its non original bits, is no longer original. How many times do you think Porsche changed engines on factory race cars ? and did they bother trying to re-unite the correct engine with the car at the end of its life ? of course now owners of significant race cars would love to have its original engine but good luck on that endeavour.
As to Aussie delivery, I fail to see any material difference between the specs of a UK, Sth African or Japanese delivered '70s 911. A RHD car was just that. I doubt they added a kangaroo sticker or otherwise as the car rolled down the production line to differentiate it from other RHD cars being built. They probably had a build sheet showing the ultimate destination but little else would have changed between build (maybe seat belts or child seat mounts - but not sure when those became critical factory build requirements. Hugh, correct me if I am wrong on this. All that really happened with Aussie cars is that they lived in a nicer climate than many of their poor northern hemisphere cousins and were less prone to rust issues. Why are Europeans so crazy about Californian and Arizona cars then ? I wonder if "German delivery" is more important to them than just being a factory LHD kept in a warm, dry climate ? I assume the latter is more important.
From posts made by recent new members looking for cars and having spoken with potential buyers at Rennsport recently, it was crazy to hear these seemed to be such high priorities vs just how sound mechanically and rust wise these were to them when looking at a car.
If I was buying an early 911 to drive it, it would need to be mechanically great with as near rust free body as possible. In fact after 40+ years, this is a real issue with many cars out there, whether for sale or not.
So I would be really interested to see what premium buyers would pay for the MNAD cars ? Look at poor old Luke with his car which is a great driver but just fails to have its original engine in it. Its the correct engine for its year and model, just not stamped right.
And before I get accused of having a non-matching numbers car currently for sale and therefore suffering from the MNAD mantras, I haven’t even had any one ask about it. I openly say it’s a UK delivered car that lived in Oz most of its life.
It’s a pity this has been allowed to get to the point where it’s the conversation opener when someone lists a car for sale and few buyers want to go any further in looking at the car after being told it fails to have its original engine case.
Let the flaming begin……….
Lets not even talk about 'investment quality' as well as this is also creeping into the conversation more and more lately.
I doubt many buyers have seen a 40-50 yr old magnesium engine case from an early 911 opened up nor do they know about the many issues that arises with old magnesium and how it wears and degrades.
Case in point - my 1972 911E had a complete engine rebuild about 5 years ago by Phil Hearn at Auto Coupe. When we pulled it down, several major issues became apparent (oh and BTW it was running fine before I chose to do the rebuild save the usual oil leaks and some blue smoke blowing in certain conditions, plus low oil pressure).
After having its last rebuild by an official Porsche centre (that will remain nameless) some 10 years earlier, when we split the case it was found the previous tunnel boring (if they ever did it) had ruined the journals and there was major oil pressure loss between the case and the lower bearing shell. Since oversize bearings were not available, it was impossible to line bore the case and fit the required larger shells for a rebuild. There were also some other wear problems inside the case that meant it was no longer viable to use.
So what now about a matching number case ? Obviously that case was not going to work so along with it went its 'matching number' . Sure we could try to rebuild it somehow but this would compromise the end product . So I had another 72 T/E engine which, when pulled apart, proved to be in excellent original condition. Case number was from the same year and not far of the original engine no, but not as per the COA of my car.
I kept the case for the future in case someone decided to make those bearings plus the other issues could be now repaired . We then built up a really bulletproof motor with new P's & C's, a 964RS oil pump (100 psi all day long) and the usual pressure fed chain tensioners plus had it fully balanced.
I feel a whole lot happier now, especially with great oil pressure that previously had been leaking past the bearings and not lubricating the crank as it should have. Had I left it 'matching numbers', then sold it on, what would the buyer have felt if he blew up the car due to poor oil pressure, albeit that the engine was recently 'rebuilt' ??
Lets face it, old engines can wear out and need to be replaced. Talking to another club member with a Cooper S, he said it was common to replace a worn engine with a rebuilt one from a Mini expert as buyers were more interested in longevity of the mechanicals rather than perfect provenance. I also recently heard about the engine in a 72T Targa I had sold a while ago (being matching numbers) that, when recently pulled down, was found to have 5 correct conrods and one from a later model car which moved around on the crank. I thought the car drove OK as did the buyer when he test drove and then bought it. But the number on the engine case was ‘correct’.
I think the current mantra of buyers on the whole matching number thing (and Aussie delivery vs original factory RHD) has been driven by journalists or other classic car buffs who feel a car with its non original bits, is no longer original. How many times do you think Porsche changed engines on factory race cars ? and did they bother trying to re-unite the correct engine with the car at the end of its life ? of course now owners of significant race cars would love to have its original engine but good luck on that endeavour.
As to Aussie delivery, I fail to see any material difference between the specs of a UK, Sth African or Japanese delivered '70s 911. A RHD car was just that. I doubt they added a kangaroo sticker or otherwise as the car rolled down the production line to differentiate it from other RHD cars being built. They probably had a build sheet showing the ultimate destination but little else would have changed between build (maybe seat belts or child seat mounts - but not sure when those became critical factory build requirements. Hugh, correct me if I am wrong on this. All that really happened with Aussie cars is that they lived in a nicer climate than many of their poor northern hemisphere cousins and were less prone to rust issues. Why are Europeans so crazy about Californian and Arizona cars then ? I wonder if "German delivery" is more important to them than just being a factory LHD kept in a warm, dry climate ? I assume the latter is more important.
From posts made by recent new members looking for cars and having spoken with potential buyers at Rennsport recently, it was crazy to hear these seemed to be such high priorities vs just how sound mechanically and rust wise these were to them when looking at a car.
If I was buying an early 911 to drive it, it would need to be mechanically great with as near rust free body as possible. In fact after 40+ years, this is a real issue with many cars out there, whether for sale or not.
So I would be really interested to see what premium buyers would pay for the MNAD cars ? Look at poor old Luke with his car which is a great driver but just fails to have its original engine in it. Its the correct engine for its year and model, just not stamped right.
And before I get accused of having a non-matching numbers car currently for sale and therefore suffering from the MNAD mantras, I haven’t even had any one ask about it. I openly say it’s a UK delivered car that lived in Oz most of its life.
It’s a pity this has been allowed to get to the point where it’s the conversation opener when someone lists a car for sale and few buyers want to go any further in looking at the car after being told it fails to have its original engine case.
Let the flaming begin……….
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